The Unthinkable Acts of an 11 year old Murderer: The Mary Bell Story
Jan 30, 2024Season 1Episode 55
Murder in the Mountains
Children are often seen as symbols of innocence, but what happens when they step over an unimaginable line? The story of Mary Bell, a young girl whose life was marred by abuse and led to actions so heinous they shook the foundations of societal norms, is the focus of our heart-wrenching discussion. We'll navigate the tragedy of her crimes, her troubled history, and the community that was ill-prepared to deal with the concept of a child as a murderer. Through the lens of this sobering case, we confront the moral and legal quandaries involved in sentencing a child of merely 11 years old.
There are no easy answers here, only tough questions and the pursuit of understanding. As we dissect the Mary Bell case, we're left pondering how to adequately balance public safety with the rehabilitation of juvenile offenders. We invite you to share your perspective and join the conversation on social media while we tease the possibility of further delving into similar cases that challenge our perceptions of crime, punishment, and redemption. Don't forget to support our podcast by leaving a review so that we can continue to offer these gripping narratives on 'Murder in the Mountains'.
Children are often seen as symbols of innocence, but what happens when they step over an unimaginable line? The story of Mary Bell, a young girl whose life was marred by abuse and led to actions so heinous they shook the foundations of societal norms, is the focus of our heart-wrenching discussion. We'll navigate the tragedy of her crimes, her troubled history, and the community that was ill-prepared to deal with the concept of a child as a murderer. Through the lens of this sobering case, we confront the moral and legal quandaries involved in sentencing a child of merely 11 years old.
There are no easy answers here, only tough questions and the pursuit of understanding. As we dissect the Mary Bell case, we're left pondering how to adequately balance public safety with the rehabilitation of juvenile offenders. We invite you to share your perspective and join the conversation on social media while we tease the possibility of further delving into similar cases that challenge our perceptions of crime, punishment, and redemption. Don't forget to support our podcast by leaving a review so that we can continue to offer these gripping narratives on 'Murder in the Mountains'.
Music. Hey everyone, alexa here and welcome back to Murder in the Mountains. We have Cherish with us again this week, hello guys. So before we jump in, I want Cherish to tell everybody the story that she encountered at the Dollar General by her house. I've not heard the story in person, only via text, but I feel like it's appropriate.
Speaker 2:
Okay. So there is a Dollar General that is literally five minutes up the road from my house. So we stopped there pretty frequently to get last minute stuff or just something to snack on when we're on our way home. So the other day I stopped and it was nighttime, I left my 11 year old in the car and we Peyton's 10, not 11. Oh man, I'm really winning. So I go in really quick just to grab some stuff and as I'm going in I notice a gentleman like towards the side of the dollar store, like outside, standing outside hanging out whatever. He looked a little weird but I went in whatever, came back out and as I'm walking out he's kind of like in front of the door and starts to walk behind me. Like I can hear the pitter patter of his feet behind me. So I turn around and as I turn around he like puts his hands in the air, like to defend himself or I don't not defend himself, but like, I don't know, to plead his innocence. Maybe it's like I surrender before anything even happened.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So he like puts his hands in the air and I like look at him, I'm ready to go, and he just does that and then just slowly backs away like a super creep. So definitely red flags there. I was like what the heck? And then I text Alexa immediately and was like this just happened.
Speaker 1:
I don't even know like what that, because a normal person would just keep walking or smile and say hey and go on about their business.
Speaker 2:
But he definitely like was just weird about it. It was super strange. I was like, oh okay, we won't be stopping there for a little bit. I actually did call the store afterwards, because it was just a little girl and an older lady working in there and I was like, hey, there's a guy hanging outside the store, just wanted to let you guys know whether he hung around or not, I don't know, but it was still super weird.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, as soon as she texted me. I'm like we're going to share that on the podcast with. That's creepy. And if you don't hear a baby in the background, we have sweet little Renly who is crawling around on the floor. You know, you do what you got to do when your mom's gonna have a podcast, so just bear with us. Other than that, I guess we'll just jump right in. You ready, I'm ready when you're ready, all right. So this week's case takes place in England and trigger warning we will be talking about murders of children. So less than at your own risk, cherish does not have a choice, so she does have to deal with what we're talking about. According to a study by the National Library of Medicine, between 2005 and 2012, about 74 children a year committed murder. Even though 74 isn't like a huge number, you know, when you think about the whole US population as a whole, when you think about 74 children murdering others, I feel like it's a pretty big number, yeah that definitely creeps me out a little bit.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. The study found that nearly 90% were boys, 79% were aged 13 to 14, and another 13% were aged 11 to 12. They were able to take this data and group these children into five groups. One, the caretaker. A juvenile, typically an older brother, is given the responsibility to care for a younger sibling or an infant. The homicide usually occurs in the residence and blunt force is used, typically not a gun. The second group is killing an adult family member, typically a parent or grandparent. These cases usually occur in a residence and the child uses either a gun or a knife. The third group is impulsive shooting during play. The child typically shoots a sibling or a friend. Except for some notion of momentary anger, these cases much look like unintentional firearm fatalities. Number four is robbery. A group of youth are trying to steal money, usually from an adult. And the last group is group assault A group of youth are fighting, usually other youth. But the case that we're going to talk about today falls into none of those categories. The only category this crime falls into is simply because they kill.
Speaker 2:
Hey, love that.
Speaker 1:
Mary Bell was born on May 26, 1957 to 16-year-old sex worker Betty McCrickett. She allegedly told doctors when Mary was born to take that thing away from me the first thing she said. Unfortunately they did not and Mary suffered terrible abuse from her mother. She once gave her way to a woman that was trying to adopt a baby, but Betty's sister literally went and brought Mary back home herself like followed the lady to her house and was like, yeah, I'm going to take her back.
Speaker 2:
Was the sister helping take care of her or just like I'm making this exciting decision?
Speaker 1:
She did try to take her, but the mom was like no, but for some reason would not let her sister care for the baby, when she clearly did not want said baby herself. Makes sense, Makes sense. So her mother also attempted to kill Mary on multiple occasions, but covered them up as accidents such as her falling out of a window or overdosing on sleeping pills, Even though the medicine was child logs up high. Everybody thought that was suspicious, but couldn't prove otherwise. According to Mary Bell herself, her mother began to use her for sex work when she was only four years old. However, this was not corroborated by family members. She did go into detail about how that was actually the case. However, a traumatic event that could be corroborated was at age five Mary saw her best friend get ran over by a bus and killed.
Speaker 1:
Okay, yeah. So on May 11, 1968, Mary had been playing with a three-year-old boy named John Best when he was found in an embankment bleeding from his head from a fall from the top of an air raid shelter. His parents assumed it was an accident, even though he said he was pushed but wouldn't say he pushed him. But you know, why would parents assume that a nether child would intentionally push their child off of an air raid shelter Okay.
Speaker 1:
The following day, Three mothers came forward to tell police that Mary had attempted to choke one of their young daughters. According to the girls, Pauline Watson and two of her friends were playing when Mary, who's almost 11, and her best friend, 13-year-old Norma Bell they had no relation, they just have the same last name came to the playground. Mary demanded Pauline get out of the sandbox and when she refused, Mary put her hands around Pauline's throat and began to strangle her while simultaneously trying to shove sand down her throat. Luckily, her two friends were able to get Mary off of her and they took off to Pauline's house, where they told her parents.
Speaker 2:
So these kids were at the park on Supervost.
Speaker 1:
Correct and you will see a lot of that going on. Pauline didn't want to go to the police because she feared retaliation, but her mom wouldn't have it. She called the police and reported the incident. During the interview, mary and Norma just blamed each other for the assault and police just let them go with a warning. So basically just a slap on the wrist, a good talk in two, and they sent her on her way.
Speaker 2:
Like here, don't choke other kids and try to make them eat sand. Yeah, okay. And then this is after the incident of pushing the little boy down the end.
Speaker 1:
Correct. So two weeks later, on May 25th, just a day before she turned 11, mary lured four-year-old Martin Brown to an abandoned home and strangled him to death. So let me just paint a picture of this neighborhood that Mary lived in. Scottswood was a very rundown part of town. It was literally called a slum, so you can just picture it. There was a lot of alcohol abuse and prostitution from parents, and that left most children free to just roam about at all times. So if you're like me and you're like, why are these three and four-year-olds and I mean even an 11-year-old just out without supervision? That's why Makes sense.
Speaker 2:
Did you say what timeframe this was taking place, like what year or anything like?
Speaker 1:
that 1968.
Speaker 2:
Okay, yeah, okay, that also makes more sense, right.
Speaker 1:
So like the 60s, I'm in completely different time. Kids are out and about. You could do that Right, and I'm not saying all these parents are just bad parents or criminals or anything. They are working and at the time you could just let your kids roam about. So on the day that Mary killed Martin, she brought Norma back to the crime scene. But when she got there she realized they had company. Three teenage boys had found Martin's body in the upstairs bedroom, arms outstretched and blood and saliva coming from his mouth. An ambulance was called and CPR was administered, but he was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. When investigators looked at the crime scene, in Martin's body there was no sign of foul play. His clothes weren't damaged. He had no strangulation marks or any other marks. Therefore his death was ruled accidental, but the cause of death was left undetermined.
Speaker 2:
You've found him in an abandoned building and he's dead.
Speaker 1:
And he's dead.
Speaker 2:
With blood and saliva coming out of his mouth. But it's an accident.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, the medical residents blamed the poor conditions of all these abandoned houses. Like maybe he was just exploring, slipped, hit his head, who knows? But Mary was off the hook Again, again, see a trend here. The next day was Mary's 11th birthday party Literally the day after she murdered a little boy. She's just having a grand old time Living at a loss. But Mary wasn't just eating cake and whacking a piñata, you know. She was out doing what Mary does she put her hands around one of her guest's throat and Norma's father swatted her hands off, blaming her over excitement as the cause. Oh, mary's just so excited about her birthday. She's just strangling people. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so bold, but in front of everybody, yeah, and her friends.
Speaker 1:
You know, dad was just like Mary don't do that Mary, stop strangling your guests, run along, have a good time. So a few days later, mary and Norma go up to Martin's home. Martin, the little boy that she killed, goes up to Martin's home and knocks on the door. His mother answers and Mary asks if she can see Martin. She replied no, pet Martin is dead. Mary said with a grin. I know he's dead. I wanted to see him in his coffin.
Speaker 2:
That's not creepy at all, not at all.
Speaker 1:
Her mother's response was to slam the door in the girl's face and write fully so she just lost her four-year-old son and these freaking menaces to society are just harassing the family of the boy that you know she just killed. They also went to his aunt's house repeatedly and would say Do you miss Martin, do you cry for him?
Speaker 2:
Not just Mary, multiple kids.
Speaker 1:
Mary and Norma.
Speaker 2:
Okay, yes, so Norma's a little creep too.
Speaker 1:
They also broke into the nursery school where Martin attended and left letters handwritten letters saying that they killed Martin, there was a murder on the loose, and so on. I'll post the pictures on Instagram so you can see what these look like, clearly written by a child.
Speaker 2:
Nobody's going to take them serious because they're wrote by a child, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:
Bingo. The police just chalked it up to a prank and that was that Okay. A few weeks after the murder, a schoolmate of Mary's saw her push Norma down and kick her screaming I'm a murderer that house over there. That's where I killed him. As she pointed to where Martin was found, but the classmate didn't report it because Mary was known to lie and exaggerate and show off and that's just what he thought she was doing. Lairly confessed.
Speaker 2:
And honestly giving her track record. I would be afraid of her if I was a kid.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's why the girl who she strangled didn't want to report it, because she's like I don't know what this girl's going to do. She just freaking strangled me and put sand down my throat in front of witnesses, like I don't know what she would do. Yeah, I'd be terrified of her and as she's getting away with it more and more and more, she's probably just building her confidence. Yep, on July 31, 1968, 14-year-old Pat Howe was making dinner for her younger siblings, one of which was three-year-old Brian Howe. When he wasn't home by five which again sounds freaking insane because he's three years old and when he wasn't home by dinner, his sister walked outside to see if she could find him. When Peyton was three, she wouldn't know how to get home. No, she wouldn't. I don't. I don't. It's just, I'm picturing every three-year-old I've ever met. A lot of them are still in diapers.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean like that's literally what I was picturing in my head as this little kid and it's stopper running around like have you seen my house? Yeah, how do.
Speaker 1:
I get home. That's it. Yeah, so, and I don't care if it's the sixties or not. Having your three-year-old running about is just crazy to me, but either way, when he wasn't home for dinner, his sister walked outside to see if she could find him. She saw Mary sitting on the doorstep and Pat asked if she had seen Brian. She said she hadn't but she would help look for him. They began searching and Norma, who often babysat Brian, joined them. They asked around but nobody had seen him. Mary pointed to a stack of concrete blocks and suggested that he may be playing over there behind them, but Norma and Pat agree that Brian wouldn't play over there and they kept moving. After a two-hour search, pat called the police to report Brian missing. At 7 pm Other neighbors joined the police in the search and around 11 that night the body of three-year-old Brian Howe was discovered. Do you want to guess where he was found?
Speaker 2:
I wish you guys could see my face, because as soon as she said the blocks, I've been just staring at Alexa, because that's where he was, isn't it Correct?
Speaker 1:
So Brian was fully clothed, covered in grass and purple weeds, and had clear strangulation marks. Near was fractures on his nose, his lips were blue and blood was coming from his mouth. Near his body they found a pair of scissors with one blade broken and one blade bent back. The death of another little boy made police think that maybe Martin Brown's death wasn't an accident, as they initially thought. Then autopsy was done on Brian's body and this is what they found. His time of death was estimated to be between 3.30 and 4.30 on July 31st. There were six puncture wounds on his thigh, his genitals were partially skinned and the letter M had been cut into his stomach with a blade.
Speaker 2:
Sure that didn't stand for Mary.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, they initially thought it was an N, but then determined it was an M. So Norma, Mary, Okay, who knows? The pathologist found that, because the pressure marks on his neck were so light, his killer was most likely a child. Police immediately began an investigation based on this information and in just 24 hours, 1,200 children between the ages of 3 and 15 had been asked to fill out a questionnaire, and from there it was narrowed down to 12 kids, two of which were our pals, Mary and Norma. When detectives went to speak to Norma, she kept grinning at them like they weren't asking her about a child that she babysat having just been brutally murdered. She also kept changing her story about her whereabouts the day of the murder, as did Mary. Mary initially said she had seen him around 12.30 that afternoon, and then added an interesting detail. She said she had seen a boy walking by himself near the crime scene carrying a pair of scissors that looked bent or broken, and that he was trying to cut off a cat's tail with them. Of course, police followed up on this tip and went to speak to the boy that she named. Unfortunately for Mary, he had an airtight alibi and she slipped up with a detail that wasn't made public. The scissors Police did not reveal that piece of evidence to the public, as they often don't for instances like this Sometimes once again interrogated Norma, but this time they read her her rights.
Speaker 1:
Norma caved and told detectives that Mary had killed Brian. She said that Mary took her to his body and that she knew he was dead because his lips were blue. She added that Mary told her quote I squeezed his neck and pushed up his lungs. That's how you kill him. After her questioning ended, she was held overnight at a children's home and they went to bring in Mary.
Speaker 1:
She was not as easy an egg to crack as Norma was, though the detectives realized she was very smart and manipulative. When asked why she hadn't mentioned being with Norma the day of the murder, when numerous witnesses saw them, she said that she just went to take her dog for a walk and that Norma joined her. Simple as that. You know they weren't together very long. We were just bopping around and walking the dog. She had an answer to every one of their questions, and when she was confronted with the fact that Norma had implicated her in the murder, she simply said that they are always out to get her. Norma is a liar and she's always trying to get her in trouble Because, keep in mind, these are just kids and, despite Norma's story and Mary being their prime suspect, they didn't have any evidence to hold her, so she was free to go.
Speaker 2:
That's frustrating.
Speaker 1:
The next day, August 7th, was Brian's funeral. As they often do, detectives attended and observed the crowd. Lead detective Dobson paid particular attention to Mary and her behavior. He reportedly said quote I was, of course, watching her and it was when I saw her there that I knew I dare not risk another day. She stood there laughing, laughing and rubbing her hands. I thought, my God, I've got to bring her in. She'll do another one. The next morning they brought Mary back in. She signed a paper giving her statement, which was that Norma had done the whole thing Carved the letter into his stomach and everything. She made sure to add that she couldn't hurt an animal. There's no way she could kill a boy.
Speaker 2:
Did her, laughing at the funeral, not throw red flags with other adults who?
Speaker 1:
knows who knows Laughing. I just picture her like a maniac just laughing and rubbing her hands.
Speaker 2:
And do we know where her mom's at during all of this?
Speaker 1:
She's often out of town on quote unquote business. She does have a father. He's not her biological father, but I mean he's there. She has some half siblings, but you know she's just out and about. So the same morning Norma did the exact same thing, except she pinned the whole thing on Mary, this time saying that she witnessed the whole thing. On August 8th 1968, both girls were charged with the murder of Brian Howe and, due to the similarities, martin Brown's case was also reopened. In the time leading up to the trial, mary was sent to an assessment center to be observed. Many of the staff members became very fond of Mary, calling her vivacious and intelligent. They were worried, though, that she didn't quite understand the magnitude of her crimes, as she was worried her mom would have to pay a fine and hoped that her mom wouldn't be too upset.
Speaker 2:
I feel like manipulative is probably a better word to describe her.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think that's correct. Her mother actually only came to visit her once and it was to yell at her for the shame that she brought on the family. Despite having some of the staff members fooled, she did tell one police officer quote murder wasn't that bad. We all die sometime anyway.
Speaker 2:
Wow, I don't have words, wow.
Speaker 1:
The trials of Norma and Mary Bell began on December 5, 1968, and, because the age of criminal responsibility was 10, both 11-year-old Mary and 13-year-old Norma were tried as adults.
Speaker 2:
Oh wow, that's very rare. You hear of even like 16, 17-year-olds being tried as adults. So maybe it's because what they did was so sinister.
Speaker 1:
And that prosecutors claimed that whoever was responsible for Brian's death had to also be responsible for Martin's death. Because of the similarities, the girls' strange behavior, like taunting Martin's family, laughing at Brian's funeral, as well as the physical evidence like fibers from one of Mary's dresses being found on both Martin and Brian and a fiber from Norma being found on Martin's shoe, made for a pretty solid case. Not to mention that handwriting experts confirmed the notes from the nursery school break-in were in each of the girls' handwriting. On the stand, Norma was vulnerable, emotional spoken sobs and whispers and was just a hot mess. The psychiatrist from the mental hospital where Norma stayed and was observed before the trial said that she had the mental age of eight or nine and didn't have the mental capacity to be a leader, and that she also got along well with all the other children in the hospital.
Speaker 1:
When Mary got on the stand, however, it was a different story. She showed no emotion and seemed fearless on the stand. On December 16th, the jury came back with a verdict after only four hours of deliberation. Mary Bell was found guilty of manslaughter, not murder, for both the deaths of Martin Brown and Brian Howe. Due to diminished capacity, I guess because she was so young. Norma Bell was found not guilty on all charges. It was believed that she was mentally delayed and was easily led astray from Mary and her evil ways.
Speaker 2:
Okay, maybe she wasn't guilty and she didn't do it, but she did still talk. It sounds to me like she was present during, so did they just let her go?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 1:
I mean she wrote the notes. She was there when they taunted the families. She knew about it and didn't tell anybody I mean at least in accomplice whether she was there or not.
Speaker 2:
Some mental rehabilitation or something yeah.
Speaker 1:
Okay. During sentencing the judge said quote there is a grave risk to all children if she is not closely watched in every conceivable step taken to see that she doesn't do again what she's been guilty of. Speaking of Mary, and because she was so young, they honestly had a hard time trying to figure out where to put her. She's tried as an adult, so you have adult prisons, the mental hospitals, so they couldn't take her. Listen to that. They were really struggling to figure out what to do with her. She was sentenced to life in prison at her majesty's pleasure, which is basically just an undetermined amount of time, like it can be revisited and whenever they see fit to release her. Basically After serving 12 years in various detention facilities, mary Bell was released at the age of 23.
Speaker 1:
She was so technically serving her life sentence, just able to do so under strict supervision and out in the world, so like parole, basically Like how's her ass? Parole To give her a chance at a life, mary was granted a new identity in kind of a witness protection type situation and this is like court protected a whole thing. She had a daughter in 1984 and when her daughter was 14, she found out about her mom's crimes. She had no idea before that and somehow reporters figured out where they were and her cover was busted. So they had to move her to a new secret address where they continued to live anonymously and, like I said, under protected court order. And from what I could find, she's still alive and I don't know why her daughter thought after she found out Don't know any of those details, but it was very much scrutinized I guess that she was able to have this fake identity because they did it so she could live somewhat a normal life when the victims, families, are like that's BS.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, like what about their kids getting to live a normal life that she took.
Speaker 1:
Exactly.
Speaker 2:
I mean, I get it that she was 11 years old, she was young. It still doesn't take away the gravity of what happened Exactly.
Speaker 1:
And that she was out after only 12 years. But that's it. That's the case of Mary Bell.
Speaker 2:
It just gives you a whole new perspective of kids are sweet, menacing and all that.
Speaker 1:
Are they?
Speaker 2:
It can be little sinister creeps too.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, she was Peyton's age when she first killed somebody.
Speaker 2:
That's insane, yeah, like the thought of Peyton doing something like that. It's crazy, it is.
Speaker 1:
It's just hard to wrap your mind around.
Speaker 2:
I also wonder what her daughter thought, because let's just imagine that, like you or I did something like that, and one of us are living a secret life and Peyton finds out about it and it's like, oh my gosh, one of my moms is crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:
And I guess I should preface this by saying Cherish and I share Peyton. She's ours she just said. One of our moms said Cherish is Peyton's biological mom. I'm Peyton's stepmom and this is an unconventional relationship. We understand that it works and it works out for everybody involved. So we're not mad about it, not at all. So yeah, it's just, it's hard to wrap your mind around. Even the court was like what do we do with this 11 year old?
Speaker 2:
I mean you can't put them in a detention center around other kids because, given the history, you don't want to put an 11 year old in a prison with people that are sentenced for, maybe child violence crimes, because then you're subjecting them to more trauma, essentially. So where do you put them?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's pretty crazy and I was going to combine this case with another case that's very similar, but that may just be next week's case.
Speaker 2:
I'm here for it, yeah.
Speaker 1:
So if you guys want to let us know your thoughts, I will post photos on Instagram at Mirror in the Mountains and if you have not done so, if you can leave a five star review and rating on Apple Pop Cassie, I can come back next week for another episode of Mirror in the Mountains. See ya, bye.